{"id":2169,"date":"2023-12-09T11:40:00","date_gmt":"2023-12-09T16:40:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/?p=2169"},"modified":"2024-01-09T11:40:50","modified_gmt":"2024-01-09T16:40:50","slug":"the-unloved-25s","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/the-unloved-25s\/","title":{"rendered":"THE UNLOVED .25s"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

By<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Craig Boddington<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes, that title will upset some folks. Funny thing about the .25-caliber<\/a> cartridges, bullet diameter .257-inch: Those who love \u2018em tend to be passionate about their \u201cquarter-bores.\u201d. Those who don\u2019t love .25s<\/a> probably don\u2019t hate them, just ignore them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
This big feral hog dropped in its tracks to a single 100-grain Interlock from a Savage 1899 in .250 Savage. The old .250 Savage isn\u2019t fast, but it\u2019s as effective on deer-sized game today as it was a century ago.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The .25-caliber is a uniquely American bullet diameter, rarely seen in Europe, equally uncommon in Africa. I\u2019m told the .25-06<\/a> has some following in South Africa, but I\u2019ve rarely seen a .25 in use on safari.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Over here, the quarter-bores have a rich history, going back to the dawn of smokeless powder. The .25-20 was created by necking down the .32-20 case to .25-caliber, first by Marlin, then by Winchester, and chambered in their popular 1892 lever-action. Initially loaded with blackpowder, the .25-20 quickly transitioned to smokeless. Although occasionally used for deer, the little .25-20 was a common small game and varmint cartridge, popular among trappers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
On a Kansas deer stand with a Winchester M94 .25-35, made in 1906. Because of iron sights, Boddington is careful which stands he chooses, but he does a \u201csit\u201d or two with this rifle most deer seasons.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Winchester\u2019s .25-35 was the first .25 designed for smokeless powder. The .25-35 and .30-30 use the parent same case, and were introduced together in 1895, so were the first sporting cartridges designed for smokeless propellent. Although hampered by round-nose bullets in tubular magazines, the .25-35 shoots flatter than the .30-30<\/a> with a less recoil. The .25-35 was a common alternative to .30-30<\/a>, plenty of gun for deer-sized game. Jack O\u2019Connor<\/a>\u2019s outfitter in Sonora in the 1930s, Charlie Ren, used nothing but a Savage 1899 in .25-35. O\u2019Connor famously quoted Ren as saying it was \u201call he needed.\u201d Lord knows how much game that rifle accounted for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In 1915, Arthur Savage engaged early cartridge genius Charles Newton to develop a high-velocity cartridge for his lever-action. Newton\u2019s project for Savage resulted in the .250-3000 (.250 Savage<\/a>), the first commercial cartridge to break 3000 feet per second. The Savage lever-action was stronger than the Winchester, and its box magazine could use sharp-pointed bullets. The .250 Savage was popular for decades\u2026and a real thorn in Winchester\u2019s side.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Gunwriter Gary Sitton was another huge .25-06 fan. He used his Dakota M10 .25-06 to take this fine buck on John Wootters\u2019 South Texas ranch, \u201cLos Cuernos.\u201d\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

In 1920, Savage introduced the M20. Essentially a scaled-down Springfield action, it was not only America\u2019s first commercial bolt-action; it was the world\u2019s first short<\/em> bolt-action, sized specifically to the .250 Savage case. In our Kansas deer season just past, Ryan Paul brought a cherry M20 and shot does with it, first M20 I\u2019ve ever seen in the field.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The only way the .250 Savage could reach 3000 fps was with its original light-for-caliber 87-grain bullet. 1915 expanding bullets worked when they worked, but most hunters learned that the .250 Savage performed better with 100-grain bullets at about 2800 fps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Wyoming gunwriter Bob Milek in the field with one of his beloved .25s. Milek used both the .257 Roberts and .25-06 for game up to elk. Boddington doesn\u2019t believe the .25\u2019s have enough bullet weight or frontal area for larger game, but with proper shot placement, they surely work.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Gunwriter Ned Roberts necked the 7×57 case down to .25-caliber, creating the .257 Roberts, adopted by Remington in 1934. Its longer case enabled heavier bullets at higher velocity than possible with the .250 Savage. Until the .243 came along, the .257 Roberts<\/a> was the standard \u201ccrossover\u201d varmint\/big game cartridge. Although rarely chambered in new rifles today, it was extremely popular, and remains an important cartridge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The .25-06<\/a> was developed at Frankford Arsenal during WWI as a military experiment. After the war, it remained a common and popular non-standard wildcat. Amazing to me none of the majors picked it up sooner, but it wasn\u2019t adopted as a commercial cartridge until 1969, as the .25-06 <\/a>Remington. To this day, the .25-06 is the most popular .25-caliber. With heavier bullets, it is fast, flat-shooting, powerful, and awesome on deer-sized game. With lighter bullets, the .25-06 is probably the largest and most powerful cartridge that could sensibly be used for varminting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Boddington used his Dakota .257 Roberts with 117-grain SST to take this weird Kansas \u201cmanagement\u201d buck. The buck went down so fast and hard it seemed to bounce.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The .257 Weatherby Magnum <\/a>was one of Roy Weatherby<\/a>\u2019s original cartridges, introduced in 1944, based on a necked down and shortened .300 H&H case. It is one of the fastest and flattest-shooting of all commercial cartridges and was Roy\u2019s personal favorite. It\u2019s not especially popular; a limitation is that it has remained a Weatherby proprietary, thus limited sources.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In recent years there have been few new .25-caliber cartridges. An exception was the short-lived .25 WSSM. Great little fireplug of a cartridge, about the same performance as the .25-06<\/a>, yet from a much shorter case, fitting into short actions. Several of the short, fat magnums introduced at the turn of the millennium have fallen by the wayside. Mostly, I put this down to \u201ctoo many, too fast.\u201d Too many new cartridges for the market (us) to accept. The \u201csuper short\u201d magnums were so short that feeding problems occurred in some platforms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For the record, I\u2019m not a huge .25-caliber<\/a> fan but I neither hate them nor ignore them. I have a long history with .25s. In the early \u201870s, on a cougar hunt, the houndsman handed me a Colt Lightning slide-action .25-20. Since then, I\u2019ve hunted with all of them, even tried the .25 WSSM when it was new. I had a super-accurate .25-06, used it a lot, have had a couple of .257 Weatherby Magnums. As a lever-action buff, I\u2019ve had a succession of .250 Savage rifles<\/a>, have a good one now, made in 1920. Also have a 1906 M94 in .25-35. My current favorite .25, however, is a Dakota M76 in .257 Roberts, accurate and sweet-shooting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
This blacktail was taken with a .257 Weatherby Magnum. By far the fastest commercial .25-caliber, the .257 Wby shoots flat and hits hard.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

I admit that I\u2019m not passionate about .25s<\/a>, but friends that I\u2019ve respected have been. Great gunwriter, friend, and mentor Bob Milek<\/a> was a quarter-bore guy. He loved the .257 Roberts and .25-06 equally. Gary Sitton, one of our greatest gunwriting talents, was also a .25-06<\/a> guy. My longtime boss at Petersen\u2019s HUNTING<\/em>, Ken Elliott, was a .257 Weatherby Magnum<\/a> guy, thought it was the cat\u2019s pajamas. So did Robert E. \u201cPete\u201d Petersen<\/a>, founder of Petersen Publishing. Sadly, all these guys are gone. Scott Rupp, one of the best Editors I currently work for, is still with us. He\u2019s a quarter-bore guy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tastes in cartridges are often somewhat reginal. Usually, this is driven by game hunted, and by local hunting conditions. Texas is the great stronghold of the .25-06<\/a>. Hard to find a Texas deer camp where somebody isn\u2019t toting a .25-06. Medium-sized deer, shots often on the longer side. More than that: A common landform there is long, open cuts between brushlines, the famous Texas senderos. <\/em>Here\u2019s the thing about hunting a sendero<\/em>: They\u2019re narrow with few reference points. When a buck steps out he may not stop for long. No time to mess with a rangefinder, quick look at antlers and shoot. A flat-shooting .25 is a near-perfect choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
In 2023, Ryan Paul brought a Savage M20 to Kansas, first time Boddington has seen an M20 in the field. An aperture-sight rifle, Paul used it to take does, using a scoped rifle for his buck.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

In Central California, we hunt small-bodied blacktail deer. The .25-06<\/a> is popular here today, but, historically, I think the .250 Savage was a top gun. I say this because, for years, it was easy to find Savage 99s in .250 on almost any used-gun rack. In the .250 Savage\u2019<\/a>s heyday, we didn\u2019t yet have feral hogs, and in our tight canyons, shots on our blacktails are rarely long. The .250 Savage was an ideal choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For me, the .25s are excellent for pronghorns and deer-sized game, questionable for larger game. Others disagree. Bob Milek used his .257 Roberts or .25-06<\/a> for elk almost every year. Milek was a Wyoming resident, usually looking for a fat cow or young bull for the freezer, rarely seeking (or taking) mature bulls. In that context, fine. For all-around elk hunting, I draw the line. Can work just fine, with caution, but I don\u2019t think the .25s offer either the bullet weight or frontal area for general use on game larger than deer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
A nice Central Coast blacktail, taken with a .25-06 on a Ruger M77 action. Accurate and flat-shooting, the .25-06 is the most popular .25-caliber cartridge, a great choice for deer-sized game.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

If there\u2019s a fly in the .25-caliber ointment, it\u2019s a bullet problem. Like our traditional .270<\/a> cartridges, the .25s have always been considered hunting cartridges. Historically, there have been almost no match-grade bullets or loads in .25-caliber. Today, with the rage for range, little development of modern, low-drag .257 projectiles. As with older .270s<\/a>, part of this is a rifling twist issue. Since the 1920s, standard rifling twist for .25-caliber <\/a>cartridges has been 1:10, stabilizing bullets from about 70 to 120 grains. Maximum G1 Ballistic Coefficient (BC) for the most aerodynamic 120-grain .257 bullets is about .400. Not bad, but not in the same league as the modern low-drag bullets with BCs well over .600.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We need longer, heavier .257 bullets to get there, but our 1:10 barrels won\u2019t stabilize them, and many of the actions on our .25-caliber rifles won\u2019t house them. There are some options out there. Berger makes a 133-grain .257 bullet, and Hornady has a new 134-grain .257 ELD-Match with G1 BC of .645. Undoubtedly, these choices will grow. However, none of my .25s will stabilize these bullets. I\u2019m not interested in rebarreling. Same story as my pet .270 Winchesters regarding the new, heavier .277 bullets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Two different approaches to varmint rifles. Left, a Savage .22-250. Right, a .25-06 on a Ruger M77 action, both with adequate accuracy for any varminting. Boddington believes the .25-06 is the most powerful cartridge that makes sense for varminting.\n<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

Doesn\u2019t matter to me. I\u2019m not an extreme-range guy. My .25s<\/a> shoot well enough and flat enough for my purposes. Happy to keep them in their box as awesome, light-recoiling choices for deer-sized game, at shooting distances I\u2019m comfortable with.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

By Craig Boddington Yes, that title will upset some folks. Funny thing about the .25-caliber cartridges, bullet diameter .257-inch: Those who love \u2018em tend to be passionate about their \u201cquarter-bores.\u201d. Those who don\u2019t love .25s probably don\u2019t hate them, just ignore them. The .25-caliber is a uniquely American bullet diameter, rarely seen in Europe, equally … Continue reading “THE UNLOVED .25s”<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":2205,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false},"categories":[7],"tags":[153,305,127,196,8,19,32,128,306],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/01\/IMG_0170.jpg?fit=1152%2C768&ssl=1","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2169"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2169"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2169\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2209,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2169\/revisions\/2209"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2205"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2169"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2169"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.wholesalehunter.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2169"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}